tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post8932828536113381336..comments2024-03-27T10:02:56.747-04:00Comments on Fiction University: Plotting With the Hero's Journey Janice Hardyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-62728317062432188072017-10-10T13:13:11.603-04:002017-10-10T13:13:11.603-04:00Sure. These are just classic story turning points,...Sure. These are just classic story turning points, but there's flexibility in how we use them. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-19314739787739339102017-10-10T12:41:39.009-04:002017-10-10T12:41:39.009-04:00Great article, but a question. Can I mix up a coup...Great article, but a question. Can I mix up a couple steps? For example, can the Meeting the Mentor happen before the Call to Adventure. For example, Luke meeting Obi Wan before Obi Wan tells him he needs to go with him and learn the force?Jerry Evanoffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-52689177250882417882017-09-18T17:09:47.360-04:002017-09-18T17:09:47.360-04:00Thank you Janice Hardy and Paul Anthony Shortt. I ...Thank you Janice Hardy and Paul Anthony Shortt. I just used the outline to craft a query letter. Very helpful. I agree natural story telling comprises these elements, organically produces the surprises in character thought and action that delight readers.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06333340243306200398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-19413320314454470572017-05-20T08:15:27.999-04:002017-05-20T08:15:27.999-04:00Most welcome!Most welcome!Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-34936415066787094762017-05-20T06:22:52.503-04:002017-05-20T06:22:52.503-04:00Really great article thanks a bunch!!Really great article thanks a bunch!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915870643261527380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-46199567222908962382017-05-20T06:22:33.134-04:002017-05-20T06:22:33.134-04:00Really great article thanks a bunch!!Really great article thanks a bunch!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01915870643261527380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-74016790263264757292016-05-13T22:14:14.840-04:002016-05-13T22:14:14.840-04:00awesomeawesomesuper hannabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07410608343512089111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-44332090664678266252016-05-13T22:13:10.554-04:002016-05-13T22:13:10.554-04:00awesomeawesomesuper hannabhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07410608343512089111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-82971853936276901082015-02-05T21:41:52.491-05:002015-02-05T21:41:52.491-05:00Exactly! It works beautifully that way -Exactly! It works beautifully that way -Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-38934675805922132352015-02-02T16:57:38.221-05:002015-02-02T16:57:38.221-05:00I read Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces, ...I read Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces, then the simpler Vogler's The Writer's Journey, which had greatly simplified Campbell's work. Now, suddenly I find Save the Cat beet sheets everywhere. The idea of beats came from movie makers and script writers, I guess. It seems to me that all twelve steps in the Hero's Journey presented by Vogler ARE all the beats needed to write virtually any book, from literary to action. Not sure what all the fuss is with Save the Cat for novelists, unless it is because it takes away a lot of self doubt by providing page numbers for each of the milestones. Mmmmm...maybe a Hero's Journey beat sheet for those in need. Interesting. Good site here. C. B. Hamptonhttp://www.cbhampton.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-83372676221443662772014-04-29T07:43:09.328-04:002014-04-29T07:43:09.328-04:00Nonfiction has a different structure than fiction,...Nonfiction has a different structure than fiction, so I'm not sure it would apply. Though if you're doing more of a narrative nonfiction, then it might, as that has a storytelling feel to it.<br /><br />You could certainly try it and see what happens. It was first used to describe myths and whatnot, which were shorter. I think it would depend if your memoir has that "journey" feel or not. Some of the steps might not apply.<br /><br />You could also try Michael Hague's six step plotting structure. That's a little smaller and might be more manageable for a memoir. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-27985009749177941902014-04-29T07:36:39.532-04:002014-04-29T07:36:39.532-04:00Not that's I've seen, but the structure wo...Not that's I've seen, but the structure works for both genders. "Hero" is really just the protagonist.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-8326225021995401772014-04-29T00:33:23.941-04:002014-04-29T00:33:23.941-04:00Hi Janice, do you think the hero's journey cou...Hi Janice, do you think the hero's journey could be applied as the structure for a nonfiction short story for 4000 words? I want to write a memoir incident for a competition and wondered if this would work as a structure in a short piece? Thanks for breaking up the hero's journey into manageable steps!<br />Maribel from Australiamaribel steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10144683703146419429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-29357961598768303332014-04-18T00:05:25.284-04:002014-04-18T00:05:25.284-04:00there is a plot-structure called "the heroine...there is a plot-structure called "the heroines journey" as well, if I'm not misstaken, would you tell me/us bit more about it?Föreningen HEMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04168594672369508010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-451694690023045922013-10-23T08:10:52.763-04:002013-10-23T08:10:52.763-04:00Or web addresses, since the links didn't actua...Or web addresses, since the links didn't actually work :)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-57152868267597007222013-10-23T08:10:14.743-04:002013-10-23T08:10:14.743-04:00Looks like a few folks got inspired by the mentor ...Looks like a few folks got inspired by the mentor comment, that's so cool. <br /><br />I love mixing and matching these. I can customize the turning points to the type of story, since some plots work better with certain moments. Looking at the other options also lets me add layers I might not have done without that little nudge.<br /><br />There are a ton of beat sheet examples out there, so here are some links:<br /><br />Bridesmaids: http://bit.ly/xzI1Cn<br />Toy Story 3: http://bit.ly/1bVTb7q<br />Die Hard: http://bit.ly/16uWoXL<br />Star Wars: http://bit.ly/1cduZ4A<br />The Waterboy: http://bit.ly/H1RDP9<br />And a whole list of other movies: http://bit.ly/1dQizL1<br /><br />The last one has a slew of links to movies going back several years. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-88055557173122830152013-10-23T08:02:37.451-04:002013-10-23T08:02:37.451-04:00My pleasure! That's my goal, and it always mak...My pleasure! That's my goal, and it always makes my day to hear it's working. <br /><br />That's awesome. I love when that happens. <br /><br />Structure is great for revisions. An easy guide to test for holes or weak spots and let you know if you need to expand or cut back on any scenes. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-31800003350833187322013-10-23T08:00:36.558-04:002013-10-23T08:00:36.558-04:00They really are. I'm glad I did them at the sa...They really are. I'm glad I did them at the same time, cause it made it really easy to see the similarities. I think that makes it easier to understand the differences and how they all work together. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-59116463250461679612013-10-23T07:59:28.927-04:002013-10-23T07:59:28.927-04:00I think a lot of folks think of structure and outl...I think a lot of folks think of structure and outlining as the same thing, but they're really different, and that's where a lot of the confusion comes from. You can have structure and still pants a story. Your plotting stage might be a bullet list of five or six arc points to guide you as you explore the story. <br /><br />I guess you're on dry land again since you're leaving comments! How soon til you're back on the open seas? Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-25325742201522962722013-10-23T07:56:34.114-04:002013-10-23T07:56:34.114-04:00Jami Gold swears by it as well. I plot with one an...Jami Gold swears by it as well. I plot with one and I still go back and double check it after the first draft. Structures are great tools for the entire writing process. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-21391852695457801912013-10-23T07:55:35.306-04:002013-10-23T07:55:35.306-04:00Great tip for multiple POVs. That would also let y...Great tip for multiple POVs. That would also let you double check to make sure each POV has a story and arc and aren't just there to infodump. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-51366735286925804892013-10-14T12:53:54.892-04:002013-10-14T12:53:54.892-04:00Thanks for posting this Janice! The "Meet the...Thanks for posting this Janice! The "Meet the Mentor" section turned on a light bulb in my brain. So glad you brought this up. <br /><br />I first heard about "Save the Cat" a couple of years ago but was reluctant to read it for fear of a formulaic written novel. BUT after having read it and your Three-Act Structure I have create a template from both concepts that I'm hoping is THE thing that helps me reach my goal.<br /><br />I am so looking forward to reading your post next week about Snyder's plot structure. I do have one request. Since you are sooo very good at providing examples for better understanding, could you please pick a popular story/movie to better explain each beat to help out writers like me? <br /><br />Until next time...<br /><br />martimarti parhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16619874032864736750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-61106760744541376942013-10-12T11:32:47.012-04:002013-10-12T11:32:47.012-04:00Thank you so much for all your wonderful posts, Ja...Thank you so much for all your wonderful posts, Janice! You always provide such great information and in a way that makes so much sense to me. I don't comment often enough, but I do read and appreciate your shared knowledge.<br /><br />Today, a new scene exploded onto the virtual page for me, a perfect scene I didn't know the story needed until I read this post. I found my mentor -- he was there all along just waiting to be brought more fully into the story. I've read about Joseph Cambell's The Hero's Journey many times, and have applied the story structure to other manuscripts, but today your post jogged something loose for this revision on this manuscript. And now I'll see what other nuggets will shake loose from reading the rest of the post.<br /><br />Color me excited.<br /><br />Oh, and I loved what Paul said about using the structure for revisions. That makes sense to me and has worked best when applied this way.Traci VWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18158949570719862850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-44677541637070211862013-10-12T07:16:56.895-04:002013-10-12T07:16:56.895-04:00Thanks for another awesome post. I loved how you a...Thanks for another awesome post. I loved how you added how the hero's journey plot and the 3 act story and Save the Cat are so similar in some ways. Natalie Aguirrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03756087804171246660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-40401502755935724352013-10-12T01:48:18.887-04:002013-10-12T01:48:18.887-04:00I have to admit, all the time I have spent reading...I have to admit, all the time I have spent reading this blog is transforming me from a pantser into a plotter. I really wish I had put a little more structure into my WIP before now (the editing stage). <br /><br />I love these plot structures, and will definitely use one (however loosely) before starting my next book.Amy Schaeferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17263719891092841767noreply@blogger.com