tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post5631779327826246427..comments2024-03-27T10:02:56.747-04:00Comments on Fiction University: Breakaway Body Parts: Are Your Characters' Body Parts Acting on Their Own? Janice Hardyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-51043646075480288962020-10-06T09:09:37.735-04:002020-10-06T09:09:37.735-04:00That's a real problem. I'm a firm believer...That's a real problem. I'm a firm believer of doing what works for the story and the writer, and if their voice breaks rules, then break them. And as I said in the post, some readers won't care. But others will be jarred out of the story and not know why.<br /><br />I think there's a difference between roaming body parts that jar readers out of the scene and ones that flow with the scene. If the sentence says what the writers wants and it works, then use it. But if they're getting negative feedback about it, it's worth reconsidering the way the body part is described.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-65582299964337323422020-10-06T08:58:17.096-04:002020-10-06T08:58:17.096-04:00I really found this interesting because I think th...I really found this interesting because I think there's currently a penchant for writers to really strip manuscripts to their bare bones, making many authors indistinguishable from their peers. I've stopped reading one of my favourite chic-lit authors as her style has gone from descriptive (you really get a sense of what the characters look like, sound like as well as how they feel), to just untagged and quite non descriptive dialogue. Many of the books in the last 5 years feel fractured with short, sharp sentences and unbelievably blunt scene endings. I’m struggling to finish her latest book and won’t be buying anything of hers again.<br />Writing is a craft and I personally believe that the best way to achieve the right fit in terms of perceived ‘no-no text’ is to see what works for your audience, rather than stripping out the individuality of style. Many of those I consider great writers tag dialogue, have roaming body parts and leave you wondering on the POV's intent; nobody really questions them, but then would they care anyway? They have their audience, and that audience likes the writing just fine or it wouldn't come back for more.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-30709489411431121832019-03-29T08:19:50.372-04:002019-03-29T08:19:50.372-04:00Thanks! There's a fine line between accuracy a...Thanks! There's a fine line between accuracy and poetic license, and some phrases are common sayings, such as "she caught his eye," so this can be tough to balance. I try to avoid anything with eyes, but I have had feet and hands do stuff :) Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-7578642919453358872019-03-29T08:02:28.934-04:002019-03-29T08:02:28.934-04:00It's referring to the physical distance. She&#...It's referring to the physical distance. She's waxing poetically a bit, but it's still distance. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-43852212595362147552019-03-28T22:28:15.933-04:002019-03-28T22:28:15.933-04:00My heart reached farther than my hands ever could....My heart reached farther than my hands ever could. "further" is the correct comparative. "farther" is for physical distance.LuigiKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08567454321451052335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-1126134888136705542019-03-24T13:38:59.084-04:002019-03-24T13:38:59.084-04:00Yes -- a pet peeve of mine when editing. Why are ...Yes -- a pet peeve of mine when editing. Why are all these eyes doing all these things? :o) My eyes look, watch, gaze, focus in on, etc. But all these are opportunities to give more depth to a scene or micro-action in a scene. Eyes on butts, for example... Someone staring at your butt (we assume while walking away) means you feel their intent, their attempt to invade your space or show disrespect, perhaps. This is an emotion-driven action - a power trip. Why not keep the eyes in their sockets and show how the character being stared at reacts? Internal thought that fumes about how the character is certain this offender is staring at her butt. Maybe she glances (her eyes don't glance, she does) back and sees the guy staring, sees the crooked smile, as he strokes his beard -- and then winks at her. Internal thought then shows her fury that he caught her looking at him, checking out whether he actually was staring at her butt.<br /><br />Point is, WE watch, look, gaze, stare - why give the power of that to the eyes? It's assumed that the eyes are doing all this stuff, just like we assume a hand and fingers are involved in grasping something.<br /><br />I love it that you've brought this back up, Janice. These are evergreen tips that deserve their own post-it...stuck, well, somewhere obvious. Thanks!! :o)Maria D'Marcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07909374867721777133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-33619700372656522022015-10-30T10:13:40.244-04:002015-10-30T10:13:40.244-04:00You might try adding them to a list of things you ...You might try adding them to a list of things you check during edits. I do that and it works great, and you can relax and clean it up afterward :)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-44014242016130019852015-10-30T10:07:52.699-04:002015-10-30T10:07:52.699-04:00Disembodied eyes are a pet peeve of mine. I used t...Disembodied eyes are a pet peeve of mine. I used to do it, too, until I learned about it. Now I don't. But my problems are fingers/hands. I always have someone lifting fingers to wipe tears (or something), and when editors point it out, the picture is hilarious. I still can't seem to spot them in my own writing, though.Staci Troilohttp://stacitroilo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-73977861859692241012012-09-26T08:25:27.406-04:002012-09-26T08:25:27.406-04:00Julie, most welcome!
Mandy, that's an excell...Julie, most welcome! <br /><br />Mandy, that's an excellent example of where this *would* be appropriate. The goal is to make the body part feel detached. And you're not wrong if you like the way it sounds. If it works in the text and that's your preference, keep it. If it jars readers or sounds funny, then you might want to think about changing it. Just be objective about what it's doing and if that's what you intended.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-58490655575967209742012-09-25T22:52:51.438-04:002012-09-25T22:52:51.438-04:00Ah. Guilty! I think my problem is that often, I li...Ah. Guilty! I think my problem is that often, I like the way the roving body part sounds better, and I kind of plug my ears and go "la la la" whenever anyone points out I'm technically wrong. But I'm working on that :)<br /><br />What I'm really commenting about is this -- <i><br />A body part isn't a character. It pulls away from the point of view character and can make the sentence feel detached and impersonal.</i><br /><br />I just wanted to say that this is true, but it's also a tool you can use to great effect. I've read a lot of scenes where the character is in such a state of shock or grief or what have you, that their body is doing things without them ever consciously thinking about it. A slightly cliched example is the person hearing someone screaming and realizing it's themselves. The roving body part does come off as detached--and sometimes that's what you want.<br /><br />Food for thought?<br /><br />Thanks for another great post!<br />-MandyCreative Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02960292977608812418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-31103793455271469522012-09-25T19:27:53.446-04:002012-09-25T19:27:53.446-04:00This post made me laugh, AND I learned something! ...This post made me laugh, AND I learned something! Thanks so muchJulie Musilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02150454913885915017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-15838281326146487522012-09-25T15:32:00.512-04:002012-09-25T15:32:00.512-04:00Martina, thanks you too! I think a lot of stuff cr...Martina, thanks you too! I think a lot of stuff creeps into first drafts :) I need a whole list to remind me what to check on. But that's the beauty of first drafts. Anything goes.<br /><br />Amanda, most welcome and good writing :)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-11766758191451889032012-09-25T13:45:40.935-04:002012-09-25T13:45:40.935-04:00Guilty. I'm going to go through my first draft...Guilty. I'm going to go through my first draft right now and work on some rewrites. Thanks!Amanda Hopperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12973974017154520574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-3607026085944907342012-09-25T12:11:56.836-04:002012-09-25T12:11:56.836-04:00Another great post! Thanks for the reminder. I con...Another great post! Thanks for the reminder. I confess that zombie body parts tend to creep into my early drafts. I have to work hard to kill them as I edit.<br /><br />Have a great week!<br /><br />MartinaMartina Boonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358736828122139189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-65105685644554604672012-09-25T07:11:08.409-04:002012-09-25T07:11:08.409-04:00Taurean, I think people get used to seeing certain...Taurean, I think people get used to seeing certain words together so they pop into your head when you're writing.<br /><br />Basty, feel free to disagree :) What's important is to write the phrase that feels right to you and for your story. And as I said, it's not an all or nothing situation. His eyes followed her across the room might feel totally right for one story and wrong for another based on the voice and situation. <br /><br />Angela, hehe I'm sure it'll be fine. Anything weird someone would have caught :)<br /><br />GSMarlene, good point about first person. First person body parts would feel much more awkward than a third person part.<br /><br />Ciara, good point about adages. If a phrase is more iconic you probably wouldn't have a problem. Perhaps "eyes following" is one such phrase. But eyes bouncing or darting might not be. It'll depend on the context and usage.<br /><br />Cat, counterpoints are always good :) There is no right or wrong way to this. And you're right about first vs third. What might sound fine in one could sound ridiculous in the other. <br /><br />Laura W, I like your take on eyes followed. That's a good example of how it might work well in context. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-60142265318256298892012-09-25T00:22:20.683-04:002012-09-25T00:22:20.683-04:00Oh boy am I guilty of this one. :)
I don't u...Oh boy am I guilty of this one. :) <br /><br />I don't usually find it weird to read, though, so I never thought of it as weird to write. As long as I don't overdo it, I'm fine. Also, I think "her eyes followed him" implies a sneakier kind of stare, like she's trying to hide her attention by looking with her eyes instead of turning her head and being obvious and awkward.Laurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15725049899131699912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-74481801078542537412012-09-25T00:15:57.130-04:002012-09-25T00:15:57.130-04:00I think roving body parts do sound stranger in 1st...I think roving body parts do sound stranger in 1st person as opposed to 3rd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-21093789330008096892012-09-25T00:13:14.732-04:002012-09-25T00:13:14.732-04:00Great topic, Janice. And Batsy's counterpoints...Great topic, Janice. And Batsy's counterpoints are always refreshing. This post inspired me to put the word "eyes" in the search box on my MS to see what I did with those things. Mostly my characters controlled their own eyes, but there was a lot of narrowing, rolling, opening, and closing. Might be time to change up the gestures. Thanks for the tip. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-50810366099217992572012-09-24T19:56:51.112-04:002012-09-24T19:56:51.112-04:00This is true of many English phrases. The more you...This is true of many English phrases. The more you think about them, the less sense they make - and many are even worse than the ones you've listed. Never look a gift horse in the mouth? Unless you know the origin of it, totally nonsensical. Why not, will it bite you? I, for one, would never read 'her eyes followed' as a set of disembodied eyes. I think these phrases are fairly well-understood. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18436989031700445050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-23413367702088993692012-09-24T18:57:49.963-04:002012-09-24T18:57:49.963-04:00I've been aware of my tendency to write roving...I've been aware of my tendency to write roving body parts and most I can rein in! Sometimes it's part of an effort to avoid I did this, I did that etc, in my first person POV. So I have knowingly left a few in. Bad writer! heehee!GSMarlenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17558162486383585621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-38290456925867849042012-09-24T16:17:01.653-04:002012-09-24T16:17:01.653-04:00Okay, so I'm laughing because I'm thinking...Okay, so I'm laughing because I'm thinking about the novel I'm about to release and it soooo has hands and eyes doing things. Hoping I don't have too many lol!!!Angela Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03324366495151363782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-88872121489628726672012-09-24T15:23:18.161-04:002012-09-24T15:23:18.161-04:00We'll have to agree to disagree on this one! I...We'll have to agree to disagree on this one! I don't think you can see or feel a "gaze" though you can follow one. I think it's much more evocative to read, e.g. "she felt his eyes on her butt" than "she felt his gaze on her butt" even if it is a little silly if you picture the eyes on the butt literally. "She held my heart in her hands" is pretty gross if you think about it, but I understand the sentiment. Quite frankly, stomachs don't have throats and so the idea of them growling might be comical - if you spent your time picturing the bear in there.<br /><br />Anyway, my point, I think, is that for me "eyes on her butt" captures the heavy feeling of someone watching you better than "gaze on her butt" would.Batsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01037760127653897794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-2388958370915486932012-09-24T15:11:00.785-04:002012-09-24T15:11:00.785-04:00Guilty of this. But I blame being
D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T...Guilty of this. But I blame being <br />D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E for brevity, whatever the cost, plays a part in this, both for myself and others.<br /><br />Don't you think, Janice?Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-71588329768217735722012-09-24T15:09:39.689-04:002012-09-24T15:09:39.689-04:00Batsy, it could be the cliche, but it's also t...Batsy, it could be the cliche, but it's also the fact that the eyes are not actually following. It's the stare that you feel. The intense gaze. You don't feel eyes per se. But if you prefer eyes and feel it fits and works in your manuscript, by all means use it. There's no right or wrong here. In some instances it might sound just find and in others it'll sound off. The point is to think about what's being written and decide if that's what you really mean to say or if it's coming across unintentionally comical. <br /><br />Lin, stomachs do growl, so no problems there. There's nothing inherently wrong with body part descriptions, it's only when they feel independent like their own POV it typically becomes weird. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-29784505634607469482012-09-24T15:08:49.523-04:002012-09-24T15:08:49.523-04:00When I began writing less than three years ago, I ...When I began writing less than three years ago, I was indeed told body parts don't move. Now that I'm aware, I hope I never do that again. And you're right, the eyes stare right back at me if I do. :)Tracy Campbellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11829493307148654507noreply@blogger.com