tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post4937967871241489514..comments2024-03-27T10:02:56.747-04:00Comments on Fiction University: How Could You Do This to Me? When Characters Betray Other CharactersJanice Hardyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-79740521313215068892013-12-03T15:37:26.851-05:002013-12-03T15:37:26.851-05:00Thanks!Thanks!Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-10378358500314066852013-11-24T01:52:03.957-05:002013-11-24T01:52:03.957-05:00Good ideas on variations of betrayal. Well written...Good ideas on variations of betrayal. Well written.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002698394784210101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-33923162414010397082011-12-02T07:18:05.416-05:002011-12-02T07:18:05.416-05:00When it's done well and fits organically (like...When it's done well and fits organically (like Angela mentioned) it can work great.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-25253855406389183252011-11-27T14:44:34.964-05:002011-11-27T14:44:34.964-05:00"They’re starting to feel a bit deus ex machi..."They’re starting to feel a bit deus ex machina to me."<br /><br />I agree with this. I think betrayal has to feel organic to work well--a sudden twist is great, but it has to make sense with the character dynamics in play. <br /><br />I agree with the spirit if Maass' teachings tho--don't be afraid to make it hardcore for your characters. :) We should always be doing this, but to make it fit with the events of the story and have it marry well with personalities and the elements in play. :)<br /><br />Angela @ The Bookshelf MuseAngela Ackermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01808259088625142389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-65108000654961687952011-11-16T12:19:10.679-05:002011-11-16T12:19:10.679-05:00Like you, I sometimes figure it out ahead of time....Like you, I sometimes figure it out ahead of time. But when a betrayal is written well, and I didn't see it coming? Golden.<br /><br />Thanks for the awesome suggestions.Julie Musilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02150454913885915017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-27282564448587159872011-11-11T23:52:04.494-05:002011-11-11T23:52:04.494-05:00The book I am currently reading told from mutiple ...The book I am currently reading told from mutiple viewpoints has a few kinds of betrayal in it. Interesting topic this one and something to consider. Sometimes that betrayal can be unintentional, or someone thinks they have been betrayed when it is really just circumstances have conspired to make it appear that way.Dale Harcombehttp://www.daleharcombe.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-60587746047070389782011-11-11T08:52:47.956-05:002011-11-11T08:52:47.956-05:00Kathie, that sounds like one that'll work.
K...Kathie, that sounds like one that'll work. <br /><br />Kaitlin, I totally agree. You always hurt the one you love, right? Cliched but true.<br /><br />Sophia, that sounds good! Betrayals with real emotional grounding behind them. <br /><br />Terry, if you know the guy is bad the whole time, then no. My peeve is that lately I'm seeing a trusted ally of the protag help them all book, then suddenly in the end flip and betray them to the antag. So annoying!<br /><br />Matthew, I've only seen the HBO show, but that looks like the kind of plot where this would happen a lot.<br /><br />Birgitte, hi! Thanks. Ooo, I like that. Protags doing the betraying. <br /><br />Monkey, trust is a great theme, and I can see how betrayal would really work well with that. <br /><br />MK, thanks! It might just be a fluke in my reading, but it's been weird. A constant threat is another good example of one way it can work.<br /><br />Angela, that sounds good as well. Those are the kinds that do work. And I Love a character who thinks they have it, then realizes they don't. Fun! <br /><br />Tricia, love that. A great way to put it. Tap into the emotion and you can do almost anything and it'll work.<br /><br />Sheryl, thanks!<br /><br />Chicory, I saved one! (grin) It could work, just because I', seeing a trend doesn't mean it's something to avoid, but it might be worth thinking about it some more. If it's the right thing for the story, keep it, but if you think you can do better, go for it.<br /><br />CO, that doesn't sound like a betrayal to me, unless he let the ally die to hinder the protag in some way. But it does sound like an interesting conflict to work with. :)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-89861872532035217522011-11-10T17:23:00.872-05:002011-11-10T17:23:00.872-05:00I'm not sure what type of betrayal the one in ...I'm not sure what type of betrayal the one in my main project is:<br /><br />Basically, the narrator says to his friend. "Why don't you think of yourself more?" because the friend doesn't care about his faith.<br /><br />Several chapter later, the friend lets an ally die so he could initiate an attempt to die. It fails, but it creates a slight breach between the two. Does that count as a betrayal?chihuahuazerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15677672177353350936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-35697950902252518022011-11-10T17:21:41.334-05:002011-11-10T17:21:41.334-05:00I do have a story in the outline stage that includ...I do have a story in the outline stage that includes a mentor betraying my heroine. Um... maybe that isn't as shocking a plot twist as I thought. :)Chicoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16504144663440678542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-60068292851180301062011-11-10T14:41:55.342-05:002011-11-10T14:41:55.342-05:00Janice, this was a thought-provoking article, and ...Janice, this was a thought-provoking article, and a topic I hadn't thought about before. <br />I reckon your suggestions for a better way are spot on too.<br />I've passed it on to my writer friends here in Australia.Sheryl Gwytherhttp://www.sherylgwyther.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-76133968942736135992011-11-10T13:36:55.466-05:002011-11-10T13:36:55.466-05:00This is fantastic, so much to think about. The onl...This is fantastic, so much to think about. The only betrayls that feel right to me are true to the emotional growth of the characters. Otherwise, they strike me as a device. I did read a YA recently that had a betrayal that seemed to be there for shock value. Left me cold.Tricia J. O'Brienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05993110400088806252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-68774674417365171682011-11-10T11:49:59.691-05:002011-11-10T11:49:59.691-05:00I haven't noticed this trend in books...that i...I haven't noticed this trend in books...that is interesting. I have a HUGE betrayal in my WIP, but it is a "I have everything under control--oh, crap I don't!" kind of betrayal. It isn't premeditated which is why it works for my story.Angela Cothranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09243582290698922119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-45645415206085451152011-11-10T11:16:28.728-05:002011-11-10T11:16:28.728-05:00My favorite part of this post was "If it'...My favorite part of this post was "If it's just for shock value, I'd suggest reconsidering it." I think any of these kinds of betrayals can be done and done well. Then again, I haven't seen a bunch of cliched betrayals lately -- guess we're reading different books. <br /><br />One of my favorite books (which I don't think I can name for fear of spoilers) has a constant threat of betrayal, things looking like betrayal, but at the end of the book, no one's a traitor.MKHutchinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07715686902529938959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-55311466830991324612011-11-10T11:03:38.025-05:002011-11-10T11:03:38.025-05:00I can't say I've read a lot of betrayal bo...I can't say I've read a lot of betrayal books recently... but my reading taste is pretty eclectic.<br /><br />Trust is one of the biggest themes I explore, so it always shows up in some kind of variety in every story I write.<br /><br />I don't always use betrayal, but when I do, it the #2 or #3 variety. Usually it's the kind of thing where one character feels betrayed in some way, but the other character has acted completely in character/logically or has made a choice to better him/herself.1000th.monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16835988128285459745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-73377911192406805532011-11-10T10:46:51.785-05:002011-11-10T10:46:51.785-05:00Hi Janice!
GREAT post and I think you really got ...Hi Janice!<br /><br />GREAT post and I think you really got the deeper meaning or unexpected betrayal. I agree with you about Betrayal #1. Ick. Boring. Next.<br /><br />I'm working on a different form of betrayal, BY the protag (not against). His call to action is to search for his dad because his brother wants to. He agrees to do it but not for the reasons the brothers thinks. The story gets ugly over that. Hopefully I can pull it off. LOL<br /><br />Keep the great posts coming!!Birgitte Necessaryhttp://www.necessarywriters.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-6141872613447399572011-11-10T10:29:37.636-05:002011-11-10T10:29:37.636-05:00Betrayals (or any other major twist) can easily be...Betrayals (or any other major twist) can easily become cliched. Read George R.R. Martin to see a great example.Matthew MacNishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03264738483763244969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-55522540948274971292011-11-10T10:14:23.215-05:002011-11-10T10:14:23.215-05:00Interesting. I don't have any major betrayals ...Interesting. I don't have any major betrayals in my books, and can't really think of many in books I've been reading lately. I'm not sure I consider a bad guy working toward his own agenda and leading another character on as a "betrayal" but I'll be thinking about it now that you've brought the idea to my attention.<br /><br />Terry <br /><a href="http://terryodell.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">Terry's Place</a><br /><a href="http://www.terryodell.com" rel="nofollow">Romance with a Twist--of Mystery</a>Terry Odellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610682530545306687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-87120748411975969032011-11-10T09:19:07.607-05:002011-11-10T09:19:07.607-05:00I'm outlining a story with a possible betrayal...I'm outlining a story with a possible betrayal, but it would be during the second act and not by the person closest to the MC. The betrayer has good reason to do so-- she was hurt defending the MC once, now she's in trouble a second time because of her and they aren't even that close. When she gets offered an out, she takes it. The real trouble comes later when the best-friend ignores the MC's advice not to get involved in her mess and then, surprise, he goes ahead and 'helps' anyway. Not a betrayal, but he seriously screws things up in the process. Because that's what friends do!Sophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17926811798176739307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-68260986922555476192011-11-10T08:39:54.018-05:002011-11-10T08:39:54.018-05:00I seem to really love betrayals, because I tend to...I seem to really love betrayals, because I tend to use them often. But I don't so much like to use the kind where the friend turns out to be evil. I like when characters are betrayed by other characters for more subtle reasons--their motives are different, the character didn't realize what the impact would be of their actions, that sort of thing. I think betrayal almost hurts more that way. If you're betrayed by someone who turns out to be evil, it's pretty easy to just start hating them. But if they betray you and you know they didn't mean to, but the repercussions were still huge, that's more emotionally complicated for the MC.<br /><br />I think that betrayals can work really well (even the turns out to be evil kind of betrayals) or really poorly, depending how much thought goes into them.Kaitlin Wardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01218406803223729204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-77059061434064289572011-11-10T08:32:35.070-05:002011-11-10T08:32:35.070-05:00Actually, I was just talking with a friend about t...Actually, I was just talking with a friend about the end of a book she was reading. She was kind of Meh about the whole thing, since she felt that the betrayal at the end didn't work for the characters. (That is it was already established that there was a traitor, but The reveal of who it was felt false--like they were going for shocking rather than consistent characterization.)<br /><br />Thinking about my current project...Yeah I have a couple of betrayals actually. <br /><br />One of does involve the betrayal of a mentor, And my story definitely hinges on it. But it doesn't happen at the climax--it's part of the inciting incident. Type 1, but not in a premeditated way: The mentor believes that the protagonist killed her parents and locks her up. It really hurts the protagonist, and she actually goes into denial about it for a time. <br /><br />There is, however, a more straightforward betrayal along the line you mean at the climax of the story. But there, since I set up who the traitor is early, It's not about the surprise so much as watching the character struggle over the choice. I'm hoping to make the shock to the reader more of a Tragic one than a Betrayed one. (More like the feeling you get when a character is shot, then when a character you trusted turns out to be bad-to-the-bone.)Kathie S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06361735751092314688noreply@blogger.com