tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post4075567333360080060..comments2024-03-17T06:03:00.362-04:00Comments on Fiction University: Twisting Legality for the Sake of the Plot Janice Hardyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-32022809918027845142014-02-04T10:40:47.638-05:002014-02-04T10:40:47.638-05:00I always smirk out of the side of the mouth opposi...I always smirk out of the side of the mouth opposite her seating position.Harry Sarkisianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02734703704447800714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-29901171679316555352014-01-22T16:13:35.119-05:002014-01-22T16:13:35.119-05:00I made a joke just the other night how Rock Creek ...I made a joke just the other night how Rock Creek Park must be the most dangerous place in DC, because almost every week a body is found there (grin).<br /><br />I'm with you. I know writers of all genres need to fudge things once in a while and I don't mind that. I'm much more annoyed by plots or motivations that make no sense, or authors breaking their own established rules to make a twist work. I'll suspend disbelief, but play fair.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-67634518878863187882014-01-21T14:26:00.002-05:002014-01-21T14:26:00.002-05:00I think this goes a more fundamental issue -- whic...I think this goes a more fundamental issue -- which is more important, story or being accurate? It's issue that all writers have to deal with. I watch the the TV show NCIS, which is set in Washington, DC. The show gets some elements right so it really sounds like DC and not just slapping a location on it. And they also get some elements really, really wrong (a place where I worked is used in an episode). But I also grew up in California, and if I only had the experience of visiting DC instead of living here, I wouldn't know that some of the stuff was pretty wrong -- and the show is very well written. That makes it easy for me to say, "Yeah, you got the place where I work really, really, really wrong, but it's not a deal breaker."<br /><br />A lot of that is in the skill of telling the story and making what you do have believable and caring about it -- basically owning it. And also picking the battles. What's most of the audience going to know and not know? Whenever I see the topic of research and fiction writing, a lot of writers treat it as a college research paper, out of fear that 1% of the audience is going to call them out on a factual error.<br /><br />As a reader, where I've had the most trouble when a story is inaccurate is because the author didn't do a good job with the story in the first place. I can think of a story set in DC that wasn't accurate, and it felt like the author threw it together at the last minute and then couldn't figure out how to end it. Always tell a good story.Linda Maye Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07203020058437093901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-34622030919315974042014-01-10T08:40:09.983-05:002014-01-10T08:40:09.983-05:00This is very true. This is very true. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-62353556395458090842014-01-08T13:23:32.151-05:002014-01-08T13:23:32.151-05:00The questions "is it legal?" and "c...The questions "is it legal?" and "could it ever happen?" are not diametrically opposed. Most of my characters do things that are illegal. Even some of the police and other officials. <br /><br />Is it illegal for FBI to use a kid without his parent's permission? Definitely. For Black Ops? Maybe. Do FBI officers ever break the law? Of course. Do they ever break FBI rules? Certainly. You just have to craft the right circumstances!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04217192664906748187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-6897338123934270202014-01-08T13:19:12.651-05:002014-01-08T13:19:12.651-05:00I do that too - one of my biggest quibbles was wit...I do that too - one of my biggest quibbles was with "Bee Movie". Okay, so I'm okay with anthropomorphic bees who can talk. I'll suspend belief for that. But the idea that all of the plants in the world can be pollinated with rose pollen? That totally ruined it for me!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09557340106320771316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-56543908227516683392014-01-08T10:26:30.509-05:002014-01-08T10:26:30.509-05:00I think it's probably even tougher with YA, be...I think it's probably even tougher with YA, because the lines are so blurry. The readers are young enough to want the fantasy, but old enough to know how the world works. And with so many adults reading YA, those readers are certainly gong to pick up on anything glaring. There are almost always ways to make what we want to do work, but sometimes that takes more work.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-43567722322500324002014-01-08T10:24:43.181-05:002014-01-08T10:24:43.181-05:00Love the Disney quote. That does sum it up nicely,...Love the Disney quote. That does sum it up nicely, doesn't it? Stories aren't supposed to be accurate depictions of real life, but writers do have to deal with those realities. The focus on making it more real is taking some of the fun out of though. It's *fiction*, folks! (grin)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-44326917567729437122014-01-07T18:33:29.173-05:002014-01-07T18:33:29.173-05:00Great topic, Janice. I actually bumped into this w...Great topic, Janice. I actually bumped into this with a YA novel I wrote. I had the MC going under cover w/ police to catch a criminal. I asked a cop friend of mine about that. He said it would never happen. Too risky for the kid. I ended up changing the story to a way I like better, which is great. But it taught me to think more about situations like that.Julie Musilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02150454913885915017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-60437553550148461952014-01-07T16:57:52.851-05:002014-01-07T16:57:52.851-05:00It's a tough one. One of the rules of kid-lit ...It's a tough one. One of the rules of kid-lit is to "deparent" the children so they are forced to act on their own accord. Finding credible ways to do this is getting harder in a world of helicopter parents. However, I believe that most kids long to have a secret part of their lives hidden from adult eyes, so maybe they applaud those who manage to achieve this, by whatever means possible. <br />I really liked your proposed solution to the queriers' question about forging a signature and having it bite them later- adding that real life element gives scope for a nice little plot twist. Elegant!<br />Reading your post, I was reminded of a story, not sure whether its apocryphal or not. Walt Disney was cornered at a party by a lady who was very knowledgable about wild life and animal behaviour. She lectured him at length about some of the inaccuracies of the actions of the deer in Bambi, such as the bucks not abandoning the doe in the face of danger and yada yada. He listened politely to her rant and finally spoke up."You know what else was wrong? Deer dont talk."Jo-Ann Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18027989147411624378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-38286867787228338352014-01-07T06:30:42.888-05:002014-01-07T06:30:42.888-05:00Great examples, and very true. Part of what makes ...Great examples, and very true. Part of what makes novels so great is that they aren't true to life, just "realistic" is the general sense. Ideas offered and explored. <br /><br />No worries, and good to have you back! Life should always come first. Glad things are calming down for you :)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-58398856601645504062014-01-07T06:28:15.725-05:002014-01-07T06:28:15.725-05:00Thanks! "Serve the story" is a good guid...Thanks! "Serve the story" is a good guideline in just about everything.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-92230033446835678802014-01-07T06:27:41.126-05:002014-01-07T06:27:41.126-05:00I have been on both sides of that one (grin). I do...I have been on both sides of that one (grin). I don't think I was able to stay quiet during that movie, though it was actually better than I expected. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-13579572379575004862014-01-06T21:45:06.887-05:002014-01-06T21:45:06.887-05:00I agree that a lot depends on your expectations. ...I agree that a lot depends on your expectations. For example, I love the movie `Megamind' and since it's a super-hero story, I don't actually question why two alien babies land on earth and Social Services just let them stay more or less where they fell. It's hilarious, and it helps make one of the themes of the story (the age old question of nature vs nurture) really work. I'd say theme is (within reason) another aspect to think of when you think about bending the rules.<br /><br />Something a friend of mine pointed out, too... with mid-grade books there are times when what would really happen in a situation is just too scary for kids, so the author deliberately tones things down, maybe makes the villains silly, or bends things so the heroes are in less mortal peril. I'm especially thinking of kidnappings and foiling robberies and the like. Ronald Dahl liked stupid villains I think for that reason. (Of course, Ronald Dahl books can be disturbing, so maybe it didn't work that well...)<br /><br />Sorry I haven't commented for so long, incidentally. There was a lot going on in real life for me this past year. I seem to be back (at least somewhat) now though. :)Chicoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16504144663440678542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-72367846179233105042014-01-06T17:57:13.098-05:002014-01-06T17:57:13.098-05:00Twisting the rules to make the story better. Love ...Twisting the rules to make the story better. Love that!Carol Baldwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444182118975929045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-64353324547897072412014-01-06T16:47:10.987-05:002014-01-06T16:47:10.987-05:00When watching movies with my lovely fiance I have ...When watching movies with my lovely fiance I have learned to just shut it. Elysium had me stone dead quiet the whole time...Harry Sarkisianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02734703704447800714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-241047472132239622014-01-06T16:22:53.303-05:002014-01-06T16:22:53.303-05:00That said, it can be HARD to get to the point from...That said, it can be HARD to get to the point from the writer's standpoint, which doesn't mean what you're saying is any less true, JD Paradise.Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-18442219121878183452014-01-06T16:21:28.677-05:002014-01-06T16:21:28.677-05:00I do understand what you were saying, Janice, I wa...I do understand what you were saying, Janice, I was just playing devil's advocate, that's all.Taurean Watkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16604609379930060667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-90641594846264739862014-01-06T16:03:35.903-05:002014-01-06T16:03:35.903-05:00And a much better story because of it.And a much better story because of it.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-9002695376218667332014-01-06T16:03:10.163-05:002014-01-06T16:03:10.163-05:00That's a really good point. If we're alrea...That's a really good point. If we're already suspending disbelief, it's easy to push the limits on what's okay. But if we expect realism and it veers off, we cry foul. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-36596249727193890432014-01-06T16:01:53.846-05:002014-01-06T16:01:53.846-05:00I'm not saying throw out the rules for MG, jus...I'm not saying throw out the rules for MG, just that there's a common suspension of disbelief in MG novels. Kids will certainly call BS on things they find wrong, so you have to be plausible and right on details. I'm talking more about true to life realism where it would hurt the story. Things any normal parent would never allow, but they happen all the time in books because the kids can't have the adventures otherwise. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-18506571496916695332014-01-06T15:59:25.632-05:002014-01-06T15:59:25.632-05:00I think that adults reading kidlit see it differen...I think that adults reading kidlit see it differently than the intended readers. We know what's normal or real in whatever situation we're reading about. Kids will spot things adults won't though. Different logic parameters. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-61506120188797825802014-01-06T15:58:01.741-05:002014-01-06T15:58:01.741-05:00There would be indeed. And the world would be a lo...There would be indeed. And the world would be a lot less colorful, too.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-15151813606862234482014-01-06T15:57:37.388-05:002014-01-06T15:57:37.388-05:00Funny! My husband does something similar. He'l...Funny! My husband does something similar. He'll balk on some detail of a movie that's so over the top unreal, and I'll say, "The rest you're fine with but that you won't buy?" and we laugh.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-59699937524005440542014-01-06T15:55:22.994-05:002014-01-06T15:55:22.994-05:00I agree - "Is it credible within the storywor...I agree - "Is it credible within the storyworld" trumps "is it realistic" every time.JD Paradisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07945134213244873038noreply@blogger.com