tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post3285852302251164009..comments2024-03-27T10:02:56.747-04:00Comments on Fiction University: The End is -- Shoot, Too Soon: What to Do With a Chapter That's Too ShortJanice Hardyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-64305891445131031252015-10-15T06:18:09.358-04:002015-10-15T06:18:09.358-04:00Some do, some don't. It's a tool like any ...Some do, some don't. It's a tool like any other and I put it out there for folks to use as they see fit. If you prefer to write to what size chapter feels right to you then do that. Chapters tend to have similar lengths, but as I said, not every book or writers does that.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-3929282114428690262015-10-15T02:51:37.483-04:002015-10-15T02:51:37.483-04:00As a reader, if I like what I'm reading, I don...As a reader, if I like what I'm reading, I don't really notice if any given chapter is 10 pages or 11 pages long. To me, it's about how the chapter ends, not where. In my books, the chapters vary widely. Some are longer because there are a series of events. Ex: something's happening/progressing in a given place over the course of several weeks. For those chapters, I have breaks in them for each week & it may take 30 pages. Others may be done after 5 pages & the plot has moved on. Until reading this blog, I had no idea writers paced their chapters to specific word counts. Live & learn.<br />GaleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-87988508169046175182015-05-07T07:11:14.650-04:002015-05-07T07:11:14.650-04:00That's what I do as well. Glad you found a pro...That's what I do as well. Glad you found a process that works for you now ;)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-16438424029798201032015-05-06T15:41:21.072-04:002015-05-06T15:41:21.072-04:00I used to obsess quite a bit over my chapters all ...I used to obsess quite a bit over my chapters all being the same length. And they were really too long. I pretty much wrote the book and then measured off where each chapter break should be. <br /><br />I am now becoming more confident in letting my chapters end where appropriate. I insert chapter breaks as I am drafting, and if it doesn't feel right on my re-reads, I change them. The pacing is a lot more natural.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04217192664906748187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-32801760506585115872015-05-02T07:14:39.066-04:002015-05-02T07:14:39.066-04:00Great tip, thanks!Great tip, thanks!Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-89136340827004028862015-05-02T07:14:09.499-04:002015-05-02T07:14:09.499-04:00It varies widely. For me, 10-15 pages seems averag...It varies widely. For me, 10-15 pages seems average for my YA novels. A good friend of mine writes more like 30 pages per chapter for her adult fantasy novels. A mystery friend writes about 10-12 for her cozies.<br /><br />You can try checking a dozen novels in your genre and see what they average out to to find a "standard" page size per chapter. It won't be a rule, but it could give you a general idea of what's typical for that genre.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-3753444379086869872015-05-02T07:10:33.904-04:002015-05-02T07:10:33.904-04:00That sounds about how I do it as well. That sounds about how I do it as well. Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-91179985478981475342015-05-01T14:22:00.886-04:002015-05-01T14:22:00.886-04:00Great advice. I just have one more to add to your ...Great advice. I just have one more to add to your list. Look at the previous chapter and see if this new one isn't a better ending. Sometimes I find myself ending chapters before they should, and I end up finding a better ending in the next chapter.Patchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09097638657085263738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-48060293049332800812015-05-01T10:14:33.031-04:002015-05-01T10:14:33.031-04:00I've read books with insanely different chapte...I've read books with insanely different chapter lengths -- Station Eleven comes to mind -- and it works just fine. Although just curious -- what length do you guys find is "standard", in terms of manuscript pages?Alyssa Carlierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10995554896786109238noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-68777992744073697202015-05-01T09:10:55.042-04:002015-05-01T09:10:55.042-04:00Great advice! When I'm writing a middle grade ...Great advice! When I'm writing a middle grade novel, I probably pay more attention to chapter lengths, since those chapters are usually shorter than those of a young adult or adult novel. In the last young adult novel I wrote, the chapter lengths varied. Toward the end when the main characters were on the run, the chapters were shorter and faster paced.LinWashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13041832821260168483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-35400290844215928172013-05-31T07:40:07.706-04:002013-05-31T07:40:07.706-04:00Charmaine, I actually have, but only when there we...Charmaine, I actually have, but only when there were a lot of very short chapters that made the pacing all funky. So I think that's more a pacing issue than a chapter length issue :)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-57742378216335652542013-05-31T00:02:45.251-04:002013-05-31T00:02:45.251-04:00Excellent advice, especially the last part. I'...Excellent advice, especially the last part. I've never heard a reader complain that a chapter was too short.Charmaine Clancyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18059559142070140041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-87036340711094746502013-04-12T09:07:46.990-04:002013-04-12T09:07:46.990-04:00Linda, I always have to add those as well :) Linda, I always have to add those as well :) Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-82697539358607598152013-04-11T06:01:38.186-04:002013-04-11T06:01:38.186-04:00When a chapter runs too short, I usually have to b...When a chapter runs too short, I usually have to back and add details. I have to work hard to get them into the story and can easily add another full page just of them.Linda Maye Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07203020058437093901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-61812828517330171442012-04-24T14:11:52.526-04:002012-04-24T14:11:52.526-04:00I think shorter chapters can be extremely effectiv...I think shorter chapters can be extremely effective, IF they're sprinkled evenly throughout the book (for instance, a POV change). However, I do aim for consistency in chapter length. Sometimes there can be two "cliffhangers" in a chapter, so you just write past the first one into that second, final hook.Heather Day Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12353914883176152555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-90662749686432988132010-03-01T08:16:50.878-05:002010-03-01T08:16:50.878-05:00It would, but then think of all the great books th...It would, but then think of all the great books that would never have been published. The variety is what makes it all work :)Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-68410696524978513192010-02-25T11:52:18.487-05:002010-02-25T11:52:18.487-05:00I only occasionally leaves books sitting for a lon...I only occasionally leaves books sitting for a long time.<br /><br />This would be so much easier if all readers were the same.<br />(In habits, not genre.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-12029699082094910942010-02-25T07:30:02.292-05:002010-02-25T07:30:02.292-05:00Ah, see I'm just the opposite. The books I don...Ah, see I'm just the opposite. The books I don't reluctantly put down might sit there for a long time. I've let books sit and picked up new ones (and read them in one sitting) before I've gone back. The longer a book sits, the less chance of me finishing it. The ones that kept me up at night or made me miss something are the ones I tell folks about the most.<br /><br />Everyone's different of course, but I want there to always be something hanging, even in a lull, to bring the reader back, because I know that's what keeps *me* reading. <br /><br />I do, however, have a separate to read pile I keep on my nightstand for night time reading. Those are always books that are light and fluffy and fun and don't have the "must read all now" endings. Those I read when I can't sleep or just want to wind down, and don't want to get sucked into a long book. <br /><br />What kind of ending depends a lot of the genre, now that I think about it. I don't expect my chick lit stuff to keep me reading all night, but I do want my thrillers to do it.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-79314879994197678172010-02-24T13:32:53.788-05:002010-02-24T13:32:53.788-05:00Janice,
In my experience, a book being put down i...Janice,<br /><br />In my experience, a book being put down is not as dangerous as the writerly mythos makes it out to be. If I really don't want to finish a book, I put it <i>away</i>, not down. If I'm multi-tasking, I might put the book down overy other minute. It's a real pain when I miss something important because I didn't want to stop reading. Or look up at a good break to see the sun rising. (I need my beauty sleep.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-67250766735281869252010-02-21T20:50:28.432-05:002010-02-21T20:50:28.432-05:00Chapters end precisely when they mean to end, they...Chapters end precisely when they mean to end, they are neither too long, nor too short. And with that in mind I let them end when they need to, teasing the reader on.<br /><br />http://terrancefoxxe.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-11000589315727963282010-02-20T07:05:49.251-05:002010-02-20T07:05:49.251-05:00Thanks, all!
Jen, there really are no rules. I ha...Thanks, all!<br /><br />Jen, there really are no rules. I have friends who write in ways that would drive me crazy, and they can't understand how I write the way I do, LOL. But it all works for each of us. I tried all kinds of things until I found what worked for me.<br /><br />Atsiko, I like to mix lulls and gales myself. I think always doing one or the others gets repetitive after a while. And even when there's a lull, I do try to end on something enticing to keep readers reading. A quieter mystery posed, or a hint or secret. I don't *want* readers putting the book down, even though I've stayed up way too late reading myself more than once. But those are always the books I wind up telling everyone about how good they were.<br /><br />I agree about structuring the chapters around the pacing, but I find that my writing style (and how I pace) tends to sync up with my chapter size. Most times, when I end up short (or long) there's something funky going on I need to address. I think I chose this chapter size because that's what I naturally write to when I'm building a scene or a series of scenes to an event. I usually have scenes of 500, 1000 and 1500 words (those get mixed up, it's not always that format), so there are these waves of tension. It wasn't anything I consciously planned, just something I've been noticing.Janice Hardyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02356672149097741248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-62177717164402652582010-02-19T13:41:21.113-05:002010-02-19T13:41:21.113-05:00this is quite timely for me as I'm currently l...this is quite timely for me as I'm currently looking at that with my editor. I had a few chapters twice the length of most, and debated on splitting them in two for consistency. <br />When I did it, I found I had to rewrite the endings to make them hang a bit. I think it worked because you add a little more suspence and question which is usually a good thing. <br /><br />I so enjoy your blog.TerryLynnJohnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08380207155608982319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-85375580788843848322010-02-19T13:09:37.862-05:002010-02-19T13:09:37.862-05:00As a reader, I was never really bothered by shorte...As a reader, I was never really bothered by shorter chapters, and it doesn't really seem to affect me as a writer, either. I don’t think there’s a set way to deal with this sort of thing, since the variance in reader attitudes is so large. Personally, I prefer a scene/chapter to stop where it stops. If a writer hits that point and keeps going, it might annoy me because it feels like they’re adding fluff, or trying to hard to fit an outline. Considering how often some writers end up with high word counts, ending where it ends is a good way to reduce that problem. I like long books, but I want them to be long because that’s what the story needs, not to meet some artificial quota per chapter or something.<br /><br />I think it really depends on what your goal is with chapters, though. Most readers and writers I’ve seen seem to see it as mostly a convenient structure to leave off. It’s been endlessly argued whether it’s better to leave off in a lull or a gale. I tend to like lulls better, because otherwise I might have trouble putting the book down. When I read later than I should, I tend to plow through ‘til the next chapter. That extra white space gives me permission to stop.<br /><br />As far as pacing goes, chapters don’t affect me much. They only approximate the pacing insofar as chapter breaks tend to be inserted in a lull or gale in terms of tension, so I think it’s better to structure the chapters around the pacing, rather than structure the pacing around the chapters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-2613067336496214752010-02-19T10:51:24.570-05:002010-02-19T10:51:24.570-05:00Great post and tips. I like to aim for some consis...Great post and tips. I like to aim for some consistency in the length, but I also make sure I'm not adding fluff.Tara McClendonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07246124060126729229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3901370917824739259.post-29178969566085015862010-02-19T07:56:31.622-05:002010-02-19T07:56:31.622-05:00Excellent post! There are no real rules, I suppose...Excellent post! There are no real rules, I suppose it's what works best for each writer, but I am with you, I like a little structure therefore I like my chapters to be around the same as one another, that doesn't mean that I don't want the chapter to end has a bit of a cliffhanger, I just need to learn to adjust the body of the chapter instead!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03667521490706435608noreply@blogger.com